May 2007


Jason Wood takes time off from writing his epic Sapphire Atlanta review post to comment on the Oracle Agile buy.  I’m not a PLM expert,  so I have little idea if this deal makes sense or not.  Agile is hardly a poster child for growth, but I suppose  it does help fill a gap in Oracle’s line up…

But while drifting through youTube I discovered that we here at SAP don’t need to buy Agile. He already works for us. Here is Amol from SAP Labs in India in action.

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It is a public holiday and father’s day here in Germany, so I get to relax a bit.  At Sapphire I made an off hand comment about executive dress sense, and someone said write a post about it.  So I will.

Scott Schuman’s the Sartorialist is one of my favourite blogs and, in the words of the Kinks, I am a dedicated follower of fashion. Well sort of.  I do like a good suit and tie.  I’m a regular reader of the English cut blog too. 

I’m not a mathematician, but one of the joys of working at SAP is that I get to meet some really interesting mathematicians and physicists. Loren, for instance, who has a great food blog, explained basic stats to me  with the patience of Job. 

There is a fascinating book that anyone interested in ties or maths should buy. (I’m not sure who has my copy, so please drop it back) Two theoretical physicists, Fink and Mao wrote the 85 ways to tie a tie. The Mathematics of knots is, apparently, a significant field of study. They comment on the site.

Recently in the magazine Nature, we proposed a mathematical model to calculate and classify all possible tie knots. Of the 85 found, we duly predicted the four knots in widespread use and further introduced nine new aesthetic ones.

The maths is a little beyond me, but it is fun trying some of the different knots out. 

Photos from the sapphire07 flickr photo stream. Thanks mainly to David and Charlie. Herewith sartorial SAP. (corrections to my descriptions welcome from any fashionistas out there)

 

Henning Kagermann wearing a mid spread collar with snap tabs, single cuffs white shirt, and a pink woven tie. Knotted with a Windsor.

Here is Kagermann at Sapphire Atlanta. consistent look, different tie.

Ernie Gunst: Head of SAP EMEA

Similar look. Strong pink tie, Windsor or half Windsor knot. mid spread collar. In my opinion the trousers are probably a touch long, although this look is quite fashionable at the moment.

 

The pink tie theme has reached the SME market. Tom Kindermans, SVP SME EMEA. Midspread collar, perfectly tied Windsor (I think) . Suit probably Hugo Boss.

Leo breaks the pink tie trend with an elegant dark blue patterned tie.  Grey suit with faint pale blue chalk stripe, single cuff shirt.  Immaculate!

 Chris Conde, CEO of Sungard. In a bow tie. Excellent! I saw it close up later, and it is a blue and red checked pattern. Definitely not a clip on. (I asked him!)

 

For his keynote Leo wore a blue suit with a blue tie. The tie had small polka dots on. Single cuff white shirt, mid-spread and a half- Windsor knot.

Hasso Plattner at Atlanta. For years Hasso has often worn a very widespread, cutback collar, and he tends to tie a big Windsor knot. Here in chalk stripe double breasted suit. 

 

Hans-Peter Klaey, mid spread collar, quite long points, probably an eterna shirt. I think this is his favourite tie, as he wears it alot. 

 

 

Amit Chatterjee, head of GRC,with button down collar, Lucian check, single cuff. 4 in hand knot. This is a very American look, but the tie is probably an Armani or similar.

 

 

 Ian Kimbell’s tie, on the other hand, is rather off the wall. Much like Ian.

To quote my favourite novelist of all time.

“What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this? … “There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter” — PG Wodehouse, Jeeves and the Impending Doom

Indeed. 

Perhaps  I will start a photo blog of developer attire next.

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I attended the SME session yesterday, but I’m not really comfortable blogging about A1S (NDA’s and so on), I’ll leave that to my blogging compadres- David Terrar has a post here.   My thoughts from the SME presentation  will remain in the twilight zone of written but not posted posts that lurk in most bloggers’ blogs.   

One thing did find out that I’d like to mention is that Woodworm is a SAP customer . Wordworm makes cricket bats  accessories and clothing. They use Business One. There is a nice story here on the BBC site

 

A cricket bat is thing of beauty.  (photo from the woodworm site)

It is super to see innovation and tradition blending together. The CEO, Joe Sillett, shows a deep passion for cricket and his products and a clear understanding of what it takes to run a business and the role that technology plays.  The SAP video is great, check it here.  The growth of the company is impressive.

 

As my son, Oliver, (2) will open the batting for Germany as well as fielding at cover point, perhaps Woodworm would be interested in sponsoring him?

 

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Sig and I were wandering the showfloor yesterday instead attending the press conference. I figured I’d give the press conference a miss. Dennis, James and lots of others were in attendance, so we figured that anything profound would be picked up by them. Instead, we bumped into a couple of old friends, and stopped by at a several partner stands for a chat.

Earlier Dennis pointed to Oracle’s poster fest.  On our wanderings we found a poster on a partner stand that is a perfect response to Oracle’s posing.  Sig took the photo with his Nokia.

 

 SAP, Wipro and Enableware working together is coolness. This is the tram to be on.

 

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, oracle

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In a press conference, lots of good questions but I thought I’d quickly mention this one.

Vishal Sikka Chief Technology Officer,and Doug Merritt Head of business user development were asked a question on Second life. Vishal mentioned the Second life demo from the internal demo jam. He commented the Second life is just another interface, and he is right.

Doug then commented about the power of virtual machines power of virtual machines for business simulation. Corporate research and business game simulation. He makes the point that pilots train virtually, why don’t business people do more of the same.

If anyone is interested in talking to SAP about Second Life, pop over to SL  and see Craigster Hax in action. Rezzing I believe it is called.

 

 

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As I didn’t live blog Henning in Atlanta, I thought I would try it here. It will  hopefully be easier as I think there will be significant overlap. You may like to read my notes on the Atlanta speech here.   Sitting with Sig, David, and Charlie. Music playing is distinctly late 80′s, and goodness I don’t even recognise the song. I think it is Go West but I could be wrong.

Ernie Gunst doing the intros.(He is the head of SAP in EMEA) Nice bold pink tie. White shirt, dark blue single breasted 3 button.  8000 people here. Bit of a history lesson on Vienna.  Business at the speed of change….Linking strategy and execution. SAP partner Axon gets a mention for Birmingham!! excellent that it isn’t all about the huge Sis.  Brum cut costs over 10 years by a billion pounds. Russian company (didn’t get the name) in electronic retail. XI links shop to the backoffice, growing at over 100%.

Gosh Bloggers got a welcome mention too.

Same blokes in suits run over buildings video clip. hmm. Didn’t really work second time around either. We need to break the blokes in suit metaphor, not reinforce it. Male dominated messaging irks me.

Kagermann on stage now. Nice round of applause. Also a pink tie!

Can there be a company without manufacturing, distribution….yes- Can there be a business without information. no.

I think the sildes are the same as Atlanta.  (dont get why there an “old” SAP GUI image in the slide) Business Model Innovation. Agility…open, extendable,cross industry. Chocolate vendor story. Partnering creates new channels. All about speed..

service

eventing

Compliance – model based

SOA adoption is growing. 7000 new productive systems on Netweaver in the last year.

SAP ERP 6.0

225   April 06

2574 March 07

2000+ new productive systems on ERP 6.0

DSAG (German User Group) 54% of customers in upgrade by end of 2007

Fastest product adoption in SAP history

BPR history  SAP R/3 + BPR   operational efficiency.  drive to standardise.

What is next? Business Network Transformation. Business network-

Hmm what is with the  “old” screenprints.

Success comes from intelligence. 2 types of intelligence 1. the people  and 2. the electronic intelligence. systems, networking..

Silent transaction. How do you get there…

Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!

Ian Kimbell on stage.  Ian what is with the tie?  Humour is happening. A physics professor joke. Cool demo of silent manufacturing big push on business networks.  Counterfeit demo with Nokia phone.  Excellent stuff Ian, where is your blog?

Henning back…

Permits example from the Dutch transport. Simplification, standardisation, reuse.

Burda. process sharing.

Valero. “pluggable” business. move from 5 to 100 billion. loosely coupled acquistions. identify 50 key services. productised integration.

Web 2.0 concepts being embraced by the the Enterprise- self-sufficiency, enhancing work patterns, collective intelligence.

Ian Kimbell back on stage for a demo. procurement process demo. Eventing in Duet, new task manager tool prototype then fires up, neat 2.0 feel and processes. Integration of structured and unstructured processes.

Henning back. Talking about his product development days. (He ought to do more of it, his engineering background is a strong asset.  Pushing GRC now. positions this well with integration and link to web 2.0

Now on the CEO’s role Take Innovation to Scale. (see my earlier post on Procter and Gamble)

Hilti example. How the business model has changed, developed insight from the salesforce to introduce “tool fleet management”

HP video. Mark Hurd, CEO.(see my earlier post) I’ll be catching up with HP later with Klaus Bernzen.

Henning now on the COO

Examples:

Cardinal Health. One company drive…working with Wipro.

Arla: Also tighter integration. shop floor integration

Telekom: master data harmonisation.

Burda. share processes

CFO: Integrity and innovation..

Cisco video. Network becomes the platform. John Chambers is a smart chap. How he differentiates Cisco is simply brilliant.

Kimbell again!  This time he is demoing outlooksoft.  I need to figure this out, but it seems to be yet another excel meets ERP tool. There is a briefing later. more to follow.

CIO

Dow Corning video. See my earlier notes.

Consolidation example BASF.  Process harmonisation.

Standard Bank.  enterprise SOA integration with legacy system.

Now the road map. (see my other notes) 

Now talking about A1S

1. simplicity in product and contract.

2. no mods

3. Hosted

3. sold over the web

Disruptive innovation via compositions, combine on premise and on demand-mentions and ADP, and appliances. (I need to do more on this appliance trend)

Finishes with community slides -.- best slide of the deck!

Admits that there were some failures in the past, nice humble story.

pretty much a repeat of Atlanta.

 

more coherence from me to come as the week goes on. I hope.

 

 

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Dear readers,

If you think my posts ramble, you may wish to avoid hearing my attempts at podcasting. With the patient help of Craig Cmehil, the Vendorprisey podcast channel is now up and working. You can get the feed here. I’ve posted a few of the bits and pieces from Sapphire in Atlanta, and I’ll be doing some more in Vienna.  Some stuff is all cross posted on SDN-BPX. There is a backlog of Atlanta stuff to post but in the meantime I’d suggest that my blogger compadres have a listen to Ed’s fine stirring words.

But, now for the main act.

Announcing the launch of the biggest thing since someone took the my off the front of mySAP, reporting live from where the asparagus grow tall, and birkenstocks are a plenty, aka the centre of the universe,  we bring you Starship Enterprisey Radio 

Craig of SDN fame and I have teamed up to bring you the finest of investigative reporting from bureaudisney. We expect this to a weekly thing, except at Sapphire, where it will be a lot more often. We will scour the every corner of every building to bring you stuff.  In this episode Craig tries to explain scripting languages to me and fails, we touch on Java One and Sapphire too.

More to come. A forthcoming episode may involve a tustle with the Wall Street Journal about globalization.  if you fancy being a guest on the show, either at Sapphire or back in the starship, then drop Craig or me a note or even twitter us.  

In 1923, AT&T’s broadcasting manager, William Harkness, described the announcer at a broadcasting
station as “its principal point of contact with the public.” He added, “The public know his voice and
try to picture him to fit it. If he is not married or not well-balanced he is apt to become light-headed
from the mash notes sent to the station by ladies of the audience or by the humorous notes sent in by
men whose wives have fallen in love with the announcer’s voice and have neglected their
household duties to listen to the radio.

Luckily: Craig and I are both married, but we are not so sure about the well-balanced bit.

 

 

 

 

Leendert van der Bijl has begun to blog. Goodness indeed. I’m keen to see more SAP partners/consultants blogging, especially in the HCM-HR space.  I believe Leendert is a fellow signed up member of the South African SAP ecosystem mafia. If you look across the globe at any major SAP project, somewhere there is a South African keeping it on track. It is a pity that the SA cricket team couldn’t be reconfigured this way.

In a thoughtful post, Leendert challenges the basic premise of Duet. Read it, see what you think. Here is a quote.

So,: Bill French said ‘email is where knowledge goes to die’. I largely concur with this.

But along come SAP and Microsoft with Duet, which threatens to dump workflow processes and even reports in my inbox. I am against that.

I am in the camp who thinks that Outlook is the wrong vehicle for bringing better usability to the broader user community. In fact, I believe the time has come for a new SAP HCM user interface and improved processes running on a thick-client, a smart-client with desktop and web components, mind you. Maybe more on that later.

I’ll agree  with the email is where knowledge goes to die statement. Even with a fancy search tool, I know that there are gems buried in my .pst file.  It took me ages to find a really cool presentation on Canada Post the other day. Actually the only way I found it was to email someone I thought I’d emailed it to in case she still had it. She did. phew. Thanks Karen. 

When Duet was first mooted, some folks in SAP went into a sulk, saying that this would erode the ESS market and undermine the portal.  My response is that we don’t choose how customers access our applications. Instead of the user coming to SAP, SAP should come to the user.   It is arrogant and self-centred for us to assume that customers want to access the system our way.  That doesn’t mean we should abdicate UI and design responsibility to someone else, but that we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the user, and make it easy for others to do so. If the market demands access via mobile device, twitter, Wii , command line or a toaster then we should deliver or at least enable it.

Reality is that the occasional management user, the toughest nut to crack, lives and breathes in Outlook today. This reminded me to go back and look at a report by Dale Vine from Freeform Dynamics on the state of the Desktop.  This graphic is from that report on the Register. (Freeform Dynamics is a must read site)

 

This is today’s reality. It is true there are lots of new challengers to Microsoft’s desktop dominance, Google apps, Zoho, and so on. Wikis are beginning to replace lets put everyone on cc in enlightened pockets, but email’s and outlook’s  dominance will not fade overnight. Optimal or not, it is life as we know it today.

As Dale notes,

The other big implication of the findings is that whichever way you look at it, despite predictions of the death of desktop applications as part of the trend from client/server to server and web based computing, office suites and messaging clients are not going to budge from the desktop in a hurry.

But Duet is bigger than Outlook and email, and SAP’s UI strategy is bigger than Duet.

Let’s briefly explore the Duet scope first.

 It is a lot more than just outlook/email. I’d suggest  checking out the duet.com site for more details.  At Sapphire in Atlanta got a lot of coverage, so the replays there are well worth a look too.  Kimberley-Clark discussed their experiences here.  The roadmap for Duet is developing too, and at least according to what I heard in Atlanta, there will be a lot happening with sharepoint in Duet 3.0.  See what Jeff Raikes from Microsoft had to say.

Duet 3.0, expected once SAP has updated is business suite, will stretch into structured and unstructured work through the addition of wikis, blogs and collaborative, virtual workgroups through the full inclusion of Microsoft’s SharePoint Server, and will also let customers build their own integration scenarios through Microsoft Office tools – likely to mean Visual Studio Tools for Office (VSTO). “We are working on the list of exciting scenarios,” Raikes said.

As Microsoft’s office strategy changes and adapts, I expect Duet will adapt with it. A year ago  the noise was all about outlook and ESS type transactions, but I don’t see this being the case for much longer. 

BTW, there is a new Duet area in SDN.

SAP broader UI’s strategy. (my take)

Over the years I’ve been very critical of SAP UI. As a presales guy, demoing against “pretty” competitors was always tough.  If I had a euro every time I heard lipstick on a pig I’d be rich. Even recently a customer commented, SAP must have an “ugly” department.  I hate complex more than ugly, but I’ll save that rant for any other day.

Leendert notes:

I believe the time has come for a new SAP HCM user interface and improved processes running on a thick-client, a smart-client with desktop and web components…

He goes on:

Platforms where we can easily publish information or subscribe to information. Platforms where we can easily build our own mashups of information we want to combine and coordinate with each other. Web 2.0 in the workplace.

I’d like to see ‘generalized integration capabilities’ for handling ‘structured data’ relevant to even the core elements of an HR and Payroll system, such as changing my address or bank account information.

He is right, but I’d say this is exactly what we are up to. The work with Adobe on Muse for example, signifies a serious embrace of Rich Internet Applications. (a target for my Vienna blogging)  One of the side benefits of all this SOA stuff is that is has made it a whole lot easier to do alternative interfaces, witness the interest in scripting languages PHP and Ruby on Rails. Widgets also provide new ways of reaching users. Silverlight from Microsoft may also open new interface opportunities. I while ago I had a play with Enso, and Nigel James (from another former colony whose cricket team is quite good) has given it a whirl in an SAP context.  I hope our GUI folks are looking at this sort of thing. There is more to life than drop down menus.

Leendert, I suggest you drop a note to Kim, another SA SAP mafia member, and talk to him about the widget stuff he is up to with payroll data. It sounds really interesting.

Balancing this explosion of UI possibilities with a need for consistency in interaction will be a major challenge. And I think this is what Hasso was on about when he talked about UIs in his Sapphire speech. The last thing we want is an HCM application behaving differently from a CRM application. I think this is less about the UI technology, and more about the design thinking, Design is far deeper than UI. Check the second half of this video. interview with Hasso.

I’d really like to see more of the UI folks at SAP blogging. They could explain this far better than I can.

More on this after Sapphire. I’m keen to find out more about all these appliances. (Duet, Enterprise Search, BI acclerator and so on) 

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Watching Henning Kagermann at Sapphire, or following the coverage of software 2007, where Hasso Plattner continued his cloud,in-memory and community riff, you can get a sense of SAP’s longer term direction. This is goodness, but today I met SAP’s future.

I had lunch with a developer; Martin Grund.  Not one of the seasoned and sometimes crusty veterans that I normally hang out with in my ERPy comfort zone,  but a youngster.  A newly minted graduate of the Hasso Plattner Institute, comfortable in ABAP, Java, Ruby on Rails, bilingual, wiki fan, start up on the side veteran, who twitters, and blogs in German with the occasional English techie post. Having done a couple of lengthy university assignments with SAP research, he knew what he was getting himself in for.  I’m impressed by what he says about the HPI and Hasso’s active engagement there. He sees masses of innovation going on inside core development, and is genuinely excited to be working here.  There’s lots that frustrates him too. 

I’d love to see senior and middle management do far more to actively encourage this new wave of developers to use their social media savviness to enrich the community driven development we are showcasing so strongly.  Use NDA’s sparingly and give them the cultural freedom and the time to experiment, question, absorb and connect. I’d better stop, otherwise I’ll start sounding like an 80′s model turned singer with a coloratura soprano voice and very big hair who married a called bloke Bobby and has an alleged drug problem.

 

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On a lovely, sunny Friday afternoon, Mike Tschudy (from the Design Services Team)  and I had the pleasure of addressing a group of developers and solutions managers about Web 2.0 and community building. As part of the top talent employee development at SAP, the HR business partner (thanks Marlin for the opportunity)  invites speakers to talk to the dev teams about trends and future stuff. The series is called shaping our tomorrow - sometimes the talks are deeply technical, other times less so (this was a less so talk). The sessions are supposed to drive discussion, and beer and bretzels are provided afterwards….well over 100 attended and nearly all of them stayed!  I’m not sure how many joined the webex from abroad.

We decided rather than doing the typical SAP death by powerpoint, to experiment and run the session from the wiki on SDN. (We had some slides, we couldn’t kick the habit totally)  Part of our evil plan was to get more internal dev and sol man types contributing to SDN, so we figured this was a good way to drive the session.  We had originally planned to have Craig Cmehil, SDN evangelist, present too, but he was very ill.  We missed his zealous presence both in real-life and second life.  Good to hear he is nearly back to fine form.

It also meant that Mike and I had to maintain the wiki ourselves. As someone who metawikis (ie talks about them) it was a sobering experience to actually build stuff in one. Once I got the hang of it, it was easier than I thought it would be.  I’d like more drag and drop and templates, but we managed. We’d planned to add some interview clips we recorded at Sapphire from Cote, Dan and Ed into the show, but we will add them to the wiki later.  We will also post the video of the session there. (we will stick a “highlights” package on SDN once we are through all the Sapphire footage)

 

 Being a Friday afternoon used youTube a lot:  showcasing VW adverts, Channel 9IBM mainframe adverts, and we decided that Hasso ought to be in youTube too, seeing as he mentioned it in his keynote…

 

 

We also touched on IBM in Secondlife, Gapingvoid and couple of the IBM bloggers (Ed and Alan), Salesforce.com’s idea exchange, and  Dell’s ideastorm  Mike demoed himself in Harmony. Cool tool. Lets get selling it!  He also presented some research that his team and the strategy team had done recently on web 2.0 for Henning.

Hasso’s message at Sapphire was music to the social media types, but how to drive that sort of thinking throughout the organisation?   It is easy for executives to talk about communities, but it is the folks on the ground that need to live it and make it happen; many are, but we need more.   Encouraging solution managers and developers who are used to working in “secret” to open up will take time - Channel 9 and Steve Clayton at Microsoft are great examples of employee led conversation.  This beats press releases and  brochures anyday.

Mike talked about how eBay’s success was built on the community, and that there is a new wave of software users and buyers that expect “2.0″ features and behaviours from software companies they do business with.

The session wasn’t all plain sailing. Several folks felt it wasn’t for them, others reckoned that their managers wouldn’t support it, and that a lot of our processes make this difficult. I guess that is the reality of this sort of thing in a large company. .   Andrew McAfee spoke of the empty quarter a few months ago. Euan has a point when he says lay back and think of England, but I’m not sure that saying travels well. 

I’m convinced that the best salespeople for enterprise software are almost aways the people who build it (well, next to those using it!). I told the story of a deal I was helping with about 8 years ago. It was for a HR-payroll system for 75,000 employees. The prospect had flown 3 senior folks over to meet SAP here in the asparagus fields. We rolled out a founder and board members to show commitment etc and I showed the latest powerpoints and demos, but just before lunch one of the prospects said to me, “I can meet suits back at your subsidiary, I’d like to look the people who write the code in the eye.”  We asked the maitre’ d to set up an extra half a dozen seats in the executive dining room, and  went and fetched the payroll developers from a couple of floors below. They joined us for lunch in T-shirts, shorts,socks, and birkenstocks. One of the developers discussed in frightful detail how he was dealing with the challenges of a particularly awkward tax rule. I believe it was this conversation that won the deal.  This isn’t an isolated case: If I look back to last  December, it was SAP’s internal HR manager talking about our performance management challenges that convinced one of the world’s largest automakers to go with us, not the sales demo or the executive love.

We then showcased some of the successes for the wiki and internal blogging. I’m probably guilty of banging the blogging drum too loudly, but I’m impressed by the growth and the quality of the internal wiki.  There is more to SAP and community than SDN.

Relying for a moment on the traditional media, and quoting  PR stalwart from SAP, Bill Wohl

“If you look across SAP on an industry-by-industry basis, you’ll find that where the innovation, good ideas and drive for us to improve SAP’s ability, tools, techniques and solutions is coming from is directly from our customers,” he says. “We’re not experts in global bottling — our ability to deliver beverage solutions relies on our customers to tell us what the business requirements are to be successful. We do that in more than 26 industries.”

So the message is hopefully clear. Much of our innovation comes directly from our customers. The stronger and the deeper the conversation with our customers becomes, the better our products will be.  Tools like SDN, BPX, blogging and so on, will make our products better, but only if we listen to and act on the messages. There is alot of this going on already, but we now need to scale.

The day to day pressures on many developers makes them wonder if they will find time. Our management need to help create that time, but a big part of this is a personal thing. I’m convinced that the solution managers that embrace social media and web 2.0 will be the ones in the driving seat in a couple of years time.   

We suggested some pointers for those folks wanting to dip their toes in.

1. LURK: Start by reading stuff. get an RSS reader and check out internal and external feeds. Take a look at The Cluetrain Manifesto  (our partners, customers and competitors are)

2. Start small internally and externally. Spend time on SDN. comment on posts, add to the wiki, social bookmark.  Experiment with the tools.

3. Be open to sharing with others.

4. Find your own voice, and tell your story. Ask yourself I know my products,  why shouldn’t I be talking about them?

5. If it isn’t your thing, don’t be negative about others doing it. Get out the way.

Finished by showing the now classic Jedi ABAP and Jedi Java clip. (Craig links to it here)

While I’m here, let me try a little wisdom of the crowds. (well permit me to call my readers a crowd?) Please send me the 10 external blogs you think that a) SAP Netweaver core developer should follow. and b) that an HR analytics solution manager should follow. Drop me an email, or comment here. I’ll figure some way to share them back. There will be some neat 2.0esque tool somewhere that would enable this. Feel free to suggest one.

update: I just read Dennis’ post.  I’d need to respond. He makes some good points, but I have some day job to attend to. (I’ve a meeting with a  banking executive and then a Journalist from the top Belgian HR magazine)

 

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